ISKCON devotees debate with Sakshi Apologetics - a closer review

Basics of reincarnation

Sridhara Srinivasa das: September 1^st, 2022

Background:

Recently, some devotees of ISKCON and a team of Christian apologetics from Sakshi TV engaged in online debates, on the topic of reincarnation. Subsequently they also exchanged email communications post the online debates. I have watched these debates in parts and although I was invited to take part in these debates I did not participate nor do I intend to participate in the future debates. Nonetheless both the teams have kindly agreed to keep me informed about the proceedings by including me as one of the recipients of their email communication. I take this opportunity to thank them for their kind gesture. In this short article, I would like to express my views on how these debates should have been conducted in the past and how they may conduct future debates should they plan to continue.

 

However, my understanding of the whole topic of debate, based on the post-debate emails chain, is expressed in the following passages. My views can be shared with both the ISKCON side and Sakshi side. As a principle, I refuse to engage in any debates wherein there is no clear stated position. Unfortunately, after going through all the communications that have happened over emails I strongly feel that these debates clearly exhibit the syndrome of ambiguity in stating the position of each side. First of all, both sides should have a clear understanding on the position taken by both sides that are planning to debate; instead the debates started out with prejudice as seems to be the strategy that the Sakshi team has been undertaking. In other words, Sakshi team did not clearly state their position in regards to reincarnation, instead they jumped the gun of assuming the oppositions’ position and started to attacking the oppositions’ view point without allowing the opportunity for the opposition to state their position.

 

Another reason for me to not take part in these debates is that, as I suspected before, giving real truth to the people seems to be missing instead the intent of this debate seemed to be to just wedge some convoluted understanding into the minds of the innocent. So there is no real information exchange between the two sides but only seems to appear to incite a verbal fight. Please forgive me for my choice of harsh words but unfortunately I see no better way to describe the whole episode. The reason I say so is not because I belong to ISKCON sect and nor do I just want to engage in ad-hominem of the Sakshi team, but the email responses post-debate clearly shows that there was no specific position taken or challenged by both sides. It seems to me that the debating sides (both) did not know what they are debating on. 

 

My intention of writing this article is to document my understanding on this topic and how this debate should have been conducted so that we all get benefited by such debates instead of war of words. Honestly, I am an ISKCON affiliate and hence my views are biased towards ISKCON side of understanding. Nonetheless, I would also like to hear the position of the Sakshi team in no ambiguous terms and hence I welcome them to comment on my writeup.

 

Having stated my position and intent, I feel that the topic of reincarnation is as broad as an ocean itself. Both sides should have narrowed down to specific aspects of reincarnation instead what was perceived was that the Sakshi team is challenging or claiming rather audaciously that Vedas don’t define it at all, without stating their understanding of what reincarnation is all about. It is not even clear whether Sakshi, according to their belief system, accepts reincarnation or not. So, the question is why don’t we hear what Sakshi’s position of what they believe as reincarnation is according their scriptures that they follow. What authority is Sakshi team following?

For example, a simple search on the Vatican church’s view on reincarnation, yields the following as the first and foremost search result:

https://www.irishcatholic.com/what-does-the-church-teach-about-reincarnation/ 

 

As per the above article, it is clearly stated that 38% of US catholics believe in the Vedic definition of re-incarnation as possible in both human and animal bodies, even against the church’s belief that re-incarnation means either re-joining with the body in heaven or burn in hell for ever depending on whether one believes in Jesus or not respectively.

 

So which view the Sakshi apologetics actually subscribe to and whether or not, in this regard, they follow the Bible? If so is it the old testament or the new testament that they follow? If they do follow either or both, can they state what their scripture says about reincarnation? How would they classify the 38% of other worldwide Christians who do believe reincarnation of soul is possible between animals, plants, and human bodies, quite contrary to the church’s view or probably Sakshi’s views?

 

It also seems like the ISKCON side came into the debate with some assumptions and not clear about what are the specific aspects that constituted to the topic of debate. Their expectations seems to be to first hear from Sakshi team what their understanding on reincarnation was based on their scripture of bible. As far as the Sakshi team is concerned they seem to have come into the debate with a pre-conceived notion of establishing that reincarnation as believed by the Hindus are bogus, without even offering their understanding of reincarnation from their scriptures. So obviously how can any meaning be made out of this debate. Garbage in Garbage out.

 

ISKCON’s fundamentals:

ISKCON accepts Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam as their main scriptures and that all information that are presented in all other Vedic scriptures are contained in essence within these two scriptures. So, yes whatever be the apparent contradictions presented in other scriptures can and shall be harmonized with these two scriptures. Bhagavad-Gita 15.15 is our basis for this understanding, which is stated below:

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo         mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo      vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham

 

“[Lord Kṛṣṇa says:] I am seated in everyone’s heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.”

 

All our great teachers including Ādi Śankarācārya have stated that the Bhagavad-gita to be the essential scripture for all human kind:

ekaṁ śāstraṁ devakī-putra-gītam     eko devo devakī-putra eva

eko mantras tasya nāmāni yāni         karmāpy ekaṁ tasya devasya sevā

 

“In this present day, people are very much eager to have one scripture, one God, one religion and one occupation. Therefore, ekaṁ śāstraṁ devakī-putra-gītam: let there be one scripture only, one common scripture for the whole world – Bhagavad-gītā. Eko devo devakī-putra eva: let there be one God for the whole world – Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Eko mantras tasya nāmāni: and one hymn, one mantra, one prayer – the chanting of His name: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Karmāpy ekaṁ tasya devasya sevā: and let there be one work only – the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” (Gītā-māhātmya 7)

 

One more reference from the Śrīmad-bhāgavatam, which states that the Śrīmad-bhāgavatam is the essence of all vedic literature, as cited below:

nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ  śuka-mukhād amṛta-drava-saṁyutam

pibata bhāgavataṁ rasam ālayam    muhur aho rasikā bhuvi bhāvukāḥ 

 

“O expert and thoughtful men, relish Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the mature fruit of the desire tree of Vedic literatures. It emanated from the lips of Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Therefore this fruit has become even more tasteful, although its nectarean juice was already relishable for all, including liberated souls.” [ŚB 1.1.3]

 

The basis of ISKCON’s understanding is certainly based on Vedic scriptures and as well as the explanations and commentaries on the Vedic scriptures given by great practitioners of Vedic scriptures like Manu, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka Svāmī, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and many other authorities of Vedic knowledge in India. We do not try to invent our own method of understanding nor do we accept the statements of those who are not authorized practitioners or of those who do not come under the disciplic succession of the above-mentioned great authorities. Yes, ISKCON very much accepts and abides by the words of Lord Kṛṣṇa and His devotees as the supreme authority.

 

ISKCON’s understanding of reincarnation:

The Bhagavad-gita’s verse 2.13 states:

dehino ’smin yathā dehe        kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir         dhīras tatra na muhyati

 

“As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change.” [BG 2.13]

 

The first axiomatic truth is that we are not the body but we are imperishable soul. Our body changes with time and dies, but the embodied soul does not die but passes on to another body at death. Furthermore, the relationship between our body and soul is explained in the Bhagavad-gita nicely with a very practical example from our day to day life, as cited below:

vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya  navāni gṛhṇāti naro ’parāṇi

tathā śarīrāṇi vihāya jīrṇāny  anyāni saṁyāti navāni dehī

 

“As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.” – [BG 2.22]

 

This is the point that Sakshi team should be aware of and whether or not they accept these statements determines the whole course of debate. Without understanding and agreeing to this fundamental view point, Sakshi team has jumped on with several assumptions and unverified statements and (mis)use the statements of the Vedic scriptures to their advantage. Hence they make an unqualified statement that reincarnation and varna system are inseparable. First of all we should ascertain whether Sakshi team agrees that in the cycle of reincarnation the unchangeable soul can transmigrate between human bodies and non-human (animals, plants, reptiles, birds, insects) bodies of life. If there is a disagreement between ISKCON side and Sakshi side then this should be the point of discussion and not a debate of whether reincarnation and varna can be separated or not. Going against this basic principle, Sakshi team, on their part, went on to build sand-castles of weak statements and fruitless arguments to establish their pre-conceived agenda at any cost.

 

Second point is, whether or not Sakshi team agrees with the actual meaning of the bible commandment – “Thou shall not kill” means that man should not slaughter animals, plants or any other non-human forms of life, not to mention about slaughtering humans. ISKCON Founder-Ācārya, Śrīla Prabhupāda, insisted that one who claims to be a Christian shall follow this commandment of Bible and not engage in meat eating, especially killing of the cows, who is our mother since we drink her milk. So, the ISKCON understanding of “Thou shall not kill” means one shall not kill any form of life, not just humans, unnecessarily. 

 

Before getting agreements on these two points, any debate with Sakshi team will end up fruitless and mere waste of labor, time and energy.